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Oil Change Interval?

servicing intervals oil change intervals

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#1 OFFLINE   mike2020

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Posted 14 October 2020 - 10:58 PM

My new Indie, who let me watch him perform the 115,000km service (VW scheduled 120,000km), recommends 10,000km oil+filter changes after 100,000km. Although driving long trips on uncongested roads (but with a fair amount of trailer work), he confirmed that the oil was in in need of a change. I willingly agreed  as cheese-paring on servicing is IMHO a false economy but wondered what the forum thought about this? Total service cost, with no problems found except for clearing long-standing non-applicable faults on VCDS, was AUS$320 = US$230=£176 for 2+ hours work including filters, sump plug & oils. Interesting to see that draining the oil took over an hour. He also removed and cleaned the protective belly shrouding as well as checking Haldex oil level etc.


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#2 OFFLINE   IggytheTiggy

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Posted 15 October 2020 - 05:34 AM

Been doing mine every 5k miles with quality oil since 26k miles now 75k, 10k is against everything I do. Lol I even did my TDI every 7500.
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#3 OFFLINE   shawng

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Posted 15 October 2020 - 12:15 PM

5K here as well. that what we recommend for all our customers on all vehicles. As for the price, for just an oil change seems teep, but I suspect the "etc." is what ran up the cost


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#4 OFFLINE   Rory

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Posted 15 October 2020 - 03:20 PM

Blimey - on longlife servicing in Europe, they can go to 30,000kms (or 2yrs max time) between services.


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#5 OFFLINE   Old Dog

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Posted 15 October 2020 - 05:33 PM

Blimey - on longlife servicing in Europe, they can go to 30,000kms (or 2yrs max time) between services.

Saaaaay what!!!  :shock:


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#6 OFFLINE   shawng

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Posted 15 October 2020 - 05:47 PM

We have been down this rabbit hole so many times, the rabbit knows us by name. If you remove marketing a the whole lower cost of ownership BS, of the equation, let's get down to a few details. first you have to split the conversation from Diesel and petrol. Diesel engines can go way longer between oil changes.

 

Oil change intervals should really be environment driven, rather than mileage. Where i live, we are in one of the most harshest climates, extreme temp swing, extreme humidity swing, dust, stop and go city traffic, ect. On petrol engines, the oil gets way more acidic over time than a Diesel. And most new engines have aluminum bearings that the acid loved to eat. So the longer the oil stays, the worse the damage. Also DI engines, produce an ash that is very, very fine, very hard and abrasive. Even the oil filter as a tough time removing it. So when you hear about timing chains needing replacement, this is the cause.  So while th eoil might still be good, the only way to control these issues is to dump the oil. 


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#7 OFFLINE   Stiguan4Motion

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Posted 15 October 2020 - 08:34 PM

Blimey - on longlife servicing in Europe, they can go to 30,000kms (or 2yrs max time) between services.

Sorry, it's not an automatic 30,000km. It is UP TO 30,000 km. The ecu takes into account many parameters including oil temperatures, driving distance, etc. To determine oil change time for that interval

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#8 OFFLINE   mike2020

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Posted 16 October 2020 - 12:01 AM

That's v. helpful Shawn & Iggy reminding us where the rabbit holes are. With so many variables, the 5,000miles/8,000kms interval is a good baseline to work from - even with a new vehicle. From what you say, it is hard to imagine the conditions under which an oil change of 30,000km could be recommended.


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#9 OFFLINE   IggytheTiggy

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Posted 16 October 2020 - 07:29 AM

Talking with my Indie he said 5k and he guarantees the motor should last past 150k miles with preventive services and timing chain. 10k+ he's seen motors blow up at 75-80k. And worry about any 2.0Tsi with anything over 110k unless it has a full service history.
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#10 OFFLINE   shawng

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Posted 16 October 2020 - 12:04 PM

The other issue to consider is filter technology. The size of the filter is no different on engines where long life, extended intervals are recommended. The filter is the exact same. On cars with a cartridge filter, we see that as you get up into the hight teens for changes, the filter hourglass due to being blocked, and get very brittle and sometime blow through. So with a fixed surface area to filter, how do they expect it to hold more? On cars that use synthetic oil like ours, we only use filter form Mann, Hengst and Mahle, which are some of the best out there, and even they all can't cope with crazy high oil change intervals. 

 

So, if you are looking for a conspiracy to keep you up at night, there you go. The auto manufacturers have figured out a legal way to sell more new cars, all while claiming to save you money on service and save the environment. 


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#11 OFFLINE   IggytheTiggy

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Posted 16 October 2020 - 06:47 PM

Insert .gif of Morgan Freeman "Hes Right you know". Lol.
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#12 OFFLINE   Rory

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Posted 16 October 2020 - 08:00 PM

Sorry, it's not an automatic 30,000km. It is UP TO 30,000 km. The ecu takes into account many parameters including oil temperatures, driving distance, etc. To determine oil change time for that interval

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Yes - that's why I said CAN GO TO :)

 

In practice, at least in the UK, people are typically doing 1000 miles per month in general commuting and family use and they will get to pretty well the full mileage (18750) at about 18mths.  Many people here change their cars every 3yrs so by using the longlife regime they're having one service instead of three.

 

It's the same for petrol and diesel cars.

 

VW tells people to use longlife servicing if they're doing more than 10K/yr.  The cars are set to longlife from the factory but dealers tend to set the cars to fixed interval servicing so they get to see even low mileage cars every 12 months.


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#13 OFFLINE   mike2020

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Posted 16 October 2020 - 11:36 PM

The other issue to consider is filter technology. The size of the filter is no different on engines where long life, extended intervals are recommended. The filter is the exact same. On cars with a cartridge filter, we see that as you get up into the hight teens for changes, the filter hourglass due to being blocked, and get very brittle and sometime blow through. So with a fixed surface area to filter, how do they expect it to hold more? On cars that use synthetic oil like ours, we only use filter form Mann, Hengst and Mahle, which are some of the best out there, and even they all can't cope with crazy high oil change intervals. 

 

So, if you are looking for a conspiracy to keep you up at night, there you go. The auto manufacturers have figured out a legal way to sell more new cars, all while claiming to save you money on service and save the environment. 

I was surprised (shocked?) to see the size of the oil filter during the service and was further surprised that the fuel filter was larger and pricier. - the exact opposite of the Perkins 4108 I serviced every 100 hrs for a decade. Fully agree with your thoughts and wonder where this will end up, all for marketing promotion?


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#14 OFFLINE   Stiguan4Motion

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Posted 17 October 2020 - 12:03 AM

5,000 mile oil changes using VW502.00 oil, mine got taken out by LSPI at 110,000 miles with a busted piston #2

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#15 OFFLINE   shawng

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Posted 17 October 2020 - 12:58 AM

A few years ago, they discovered that calcium in the oil (part of the additive package) was contributing to LSPI, and hence they rushed out the SN+ spec. I suspect that some of the 502 oils might have also contributed to the problem.

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#16 OFFLINE   mike2020

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Posted 17 October 2020 - 03:13 AM

Is LSPI the same as what we in Britland used to call 'pinking' - then due to either low grade petrol or too far advanced ignition resulting in pre-ignition?


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#17 OFFLINE   Stiguan4Motion

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Posted 17 October 2020 - 03:15 AM

Is LSPI the same as what we in Britland used to call 'pinking' - then due to either low grade petrol or too far advanced ignition resulting in pre-ignition?

No it's not. It's due to the calcium in the oil detergent getting super heated in low speed, high load situations, causing it to pre-ignite.

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#18 OFFLINE   mike2020

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Posted 17 October 2020 - 06:09 AM

So, different cause but similar result? I seem to remember that pinking could damage engines the same way.


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#19 OFFLINE   IggytheTiggy

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Posted 17 October 2020 - 07:23 AM

Pinking burns from the top end. I've seen it burn holes clean thru pistons. And it's super hard on the bearings. Burns valves, and if it's bad enough it will send a piston thru the block. My old company van a 94 E350 was originally a Nat Gas power but it was converted back to gas when my then boss bought it. It pinked like crazy. Boss said just drive it. It's just the cheap fuel he buys. Indeed if I put some octane booster in it, it got better. It was a 300 straight six. And I knew it wasn't the fuel, it was not advancing spark. He had me take it in and they said it would be $1-2k to fix it. The "head was messed up". So I just drove it. 0put another 150-180k miles on it. My side was dead one morning nap I went to the main shop to do some fabrication work. About half way there pink turned to rod knock hard core (he also only allowed us to change oil eveey 15-20k miles) closer I get to the shop another rod knock and then another I'm just pushing the thing in. I pull into the paddock, it's knocking so loud boss comes running out wondering what was making the noise, right when #4 piston launched thru the drivers side fender. He found every way possible to blame me for it. Gets a "low mile" junk yard motor and this pinks like crazy. So I said heck with it took it to my mechanic, and it was a $5 part called a spout switch. It's what allows the electronic advance to function. It had to be removed for the natural gas conversion and wasn't installed when changed back. It's was just a tiny relay looking thing. I drove it another 30k before I gave up the front end was shot, I pulled in and said it needs fixed or I ain't driving it. Was out in the oldest beater the shop had till I quit a month later for personal reasons and a sizable hour cut.
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#20 OFFLINE   Rory

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Posted 17 October 2020 - 04:48 PM

No it's not. It's due to the calcium in the oil detergent getting super heated in low speed, high load situations, causing it to pre-ignite.

 

So, if you'd used the same oil for 20K miles would the calcium effect have lessened?

 

I recall reading an oil analysis discusion and engine wear was higher when oil is new, then it levels off, then starts to increase again.


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